PBS Discussions

santalone · Moderator Joined: 27 Apr 2004 Posts: 50

Battered by hurricanes, embroiled in political turmoil, overrun by armed gangs, and largely ignored by the international community, Haiti is trying, yet again, to embrace democracy. As our hemisphere’s poorest country attempts to organize for presidential elections, some hardened veterans of its endless cycle of uprisings and downfalls are trading guns for voter registration cards, warily giving the election process their support, while followers of exiled President Jean-Bertrand Aristide take to the streets in protest. Use this space to share your thoughts on the roots of conflict in Haiti and the path its new leaders should take to stabilize the country.

whitedove · Joined: 02 Sep 2005 Posts: 2 Location: CA.

I didn't realize that this topic was about Haiti until I read through the text....I thought it was about New Orleans!

kayjersey · Joined: 06 Sep 2005 Posts: 1

Thank you Wide Angle for Unfinished Country. It is unfortunate what is going on in Haiti. The violence, the poverty and chaos are unnecessary. The land and the people of Haiti are suffering. I pray this election will bring an end to the suffering and start a healing process in a county that has so much potential.

echarle

I truly believe this program was a great one as it may help Haitians to be finally conscious to the conditions of this country....As a political science graduate from UIC, I plan on returning to my country in order to start this process...It's about time something positive happen to this country...We, as Guy Phillipe stated, the younger generation, need to participaate in the political process in order for something new to happen...I hope they get the message....Edson Charles....

rick hutchinson · Joined: 06 Sep 2005 Posts: 2

After living in Haiti for 4 years, I am convinced the root of their conflicts and poverty is Voodoo and corruption. It is a country where everyone does what is right in their own eyes not understanding that along with freedom comes responsibility. My wife and I love the Haitians very much and hope and pray that things will change quickly. In order for that to happen I believe the United States has the moral responsibility to become overtly involved. The U.S. should provide peace keeping forces for the long term and do everything possible to "root out" corruption. With stability, industries could be established and provide work for the people. Haitians want to work. Since we are outsourcing so many jobs to Asia it is only practical to employ Haitians as they are only a few hundred miles from the southern U.S. coast.

kcp678 · Joined: 06 Sep 2005 Posts: 3 Location: Bronx,NY 10460

I was moved by the way James Dubbins had summarized his mission in Haiti.
But what he didn't say, is that HAiti is the most looted, ransacked,savaged place on earth. What kind of face do we use to portray Haiti in such a nefarious image? What kind of message do you think that send to Castro observing at close range what you guys are perpetrating on those innocent people?
_________________
I was moved by the way James Dubbins had summarized his mission in Haiti.
But what he didn't say, is that HAiti is the most looted, ransacked,savaged place on earth. What kind of face do we use to portray Haiti in such a nefarious image?

Sashenka · Joined: 06 Sep 2005 Posts: 4

What we really need actually in Haiti is EDUCATION. If the kids who grow up now are educated, Haiti will not the same as it is now.
Let say every single person who s not in Haiti now, in charge to send a kid to school?
Let say all the politician who want to be a president say: before to be a president let me see 10 years ago what did I do for my country? did I help any kid with their education?
We all Haitian knows what to do for Haiti, but we all are better on talking and do nothing.
Haiti actually needs help on: Education (included HIV/AIDS), forestry. You want to do something for Haiti, choose any familly and be in charge to send a kid to school.
Haiti didn't offert anything actually but what did we offert to haiti to Haitian? We keept saying it's USA fault, may be it is but it our fault first cause when someone offer you help took advantage on that. see Haiti first not personal benefict.
Vive Haiti a tout jamais unis
Peace and love
sashenka

kcp678 · Joined: 06 Sep 2005 Posts: 3 Location: Bronx,NY 10460

Taking toxic waste to kill them, stealing the undergroung resources every time you want to justify an invasion. This is a monumental failure and shame for the US who begged Haitians in the early 1770's to help them obtaining their independence--while promising to help them(Haitians) tomorrow. This is the same Haiti which was the wealthiest colony of Spain, England,France, and the depotoir of theUnited States toxic waste site today.
One thing for sure, tomorrow never die and should neer die. There's hope for Haiti, help is on the way. Enough is enough!
_________________
I was moved by the way James Dubbins had summarized his mission in Haiti.
But what he didn't say, is that HAiti is the most looted, ransacked,savaged place on earth. What kind of face do we use to portray Haiti in such a nefarious image?

Sashenka · Joined: 06 Sep 2005 Posts: 4

I have a question for you, I don't know Guy Philippe do you think it could be a president for Haiti?
Because actually Haiti need a president not because he is popular but he knows the problems and know how to solve it, can he do that?
Peace
sashenka

kcp678 · Joined: 06 Sep 2005 Posts: 3 Location: Bronx,NY 10460

Dear Rick,
I'm very thrilled by your comments, but I just want to add:"freedom is not given, especially the way we obtain ours". Therefore, it is our responsobility to unify ourselves to promote civism, tolerance, sharing bold ideas, in order to transform our society. The greatest threat of Haiti's success is foreign interference in our political paradigm. If we dream of succeeding, we have to give a distance to our great friends of always in order to clean our dirty lingeries in family.
_________________
I was moved by the way James Dubbins had summarized his mission in Haiti.
But what he didn't say, is that HAiti is the most looted, ransacked,savaged place on earth. What kind of face do we use to portray Haiti in such a nefarious image?

echarle

Sashenka, i personnally know Guy since we went to High school in Haiti years ago...Will he be a good president for Haiti? I personally can't answer that; however, what I can tell you is that he is very conscious of our problems As he said, The YOUTH needs to participate in this process, we need some new blood.....edson Charles...

Sashenka · Joined: 06 Sep 2005 Posts: 4

I understand that it's good when you know someone you can tell, but sorry about that Aristide used to say the same and a lot of people say the same about him, and now what can we say...
it jsut for me I need someone who s not too friendly and do the right thing, you see what I mean for HAITI

rick hutchinson · Joined: 06 Sep 2005 Posts: 2

I agree with your ideals. however, at the rate Haiti is solving its problems it will take too much suffering, pain and death. Nation building is not wrong if we stabilize the country, root out corruption and then let Haiti be a real democracy. It is not a republic or a democracy now only a prison for the most abused and overlooked people in our hemisphere. They are beautiful peace loving people who deserve so much more.

globlrefrm · Joined: 06 Sep 2005 Posts: 2 Location: Minneapolis vicinity

Although it was not evident in this Wide Angle, Haiti's long-suffering democracy movement has made some very impressive achievements under extraordinarily difficult circumstances. Some day, Haitians will no doubt come together again and literally rebuild their country stone by stone. But Unfinished Country, though it made some good points, sadly ultimately only helps to perpetuate the myths, misinformation and omissions of essential facts that guide mistaken policies of the international community whose heavy hand in Haiti since her independence and particularly over the past two years, has more often than not led Haiti to the despair we see today.

globlrefrm · Joined: 06 Sep 2005 Posts: 2 Location: Minneapolis vicinity

It seems to me that Guy Philippe's willingness to take up arms and use violence to overthrow a democratically-elected president whose term was nearly up is not the kind of political involvement that people who believe in the peaceful handover of power from one elected leader to another really want or need. Hasn't Haiti had enough violence? While Guy Philippe and Butteur Metayer, the thuggish stars of this Wide Angle, were looting and sacking their way toward the capital, they killed what might have been a promising and innovative political effort at dialogue and compromise promoted by CARICOM and at least nominally supported by the OAS, the US and the UN. Unfortunately, Guy Philippe and Metayer had allies in the Bush Administration's determination that regime change was the best solution for Haiti. I found it absolutely amazing that Wide Angle ignored the extremely well-documented persecution of political leaders and ordinary members of Aristide's party, countless numbers of whom have been terrorized, arrested, or forced into exile for more than a year. To merrily plow ahead with elections without addressing the well-planned devastation of Haiti's largest political force is quite shocking when one considers how many powerful forces are supporting these elections.

jawillie · Joined: 06 Sep 2005 Posts: 1 Location: New York City

This program though short gave me a glimpse at life in Haiti today and the one thing that caused me to pay more attention is the fact that so many of the people are illiterate in this the 21st Century. If the population is educated by the government, and I mean the Haitian government, things will change for the better. I understand that man was primitive before they became civilized and it was through education that they/we departed from our primitive ways. It does not matter how much foreign aid is given to Haiti, if the majority of the population is not educated, and at all age levels, then the next 200 years will see the same results. One other thing, the UN was formed long after Haiti was independent and if they were living up to their name"UNITED NATIONS" then Haiti would have been a better place today. Haiti is very close to where the posh offices of the UN is located, and as the Haitians sail in small unsafe boats to the USA the UN EXECUTIVES can leave their comfort zone and rent a small seaworthy watercraft and sail to Haiti and do some real work down there. I think it is a shame on the UN to keep putting out "fires" in Haiti every time there is a flare up. They need to sustain their activities over a long period, not months but years, and Things will get better. Now is the time for them to stay the course. Enough of their tokenism.

aim · Joined: 06 Sep 2005 Posts: 7 Location: GA

I am among the many currently evacuated from Haiti and waiting to return when it is safer. In response to Global Reform's comments, there have actually been very few achievements or advancements in what can barely be called a democracy, and most Haitians would argue that their society has never "come together" and is at this point starkly divided politically, socially and economically. I do agree that the international community has made a series of poor decisions regarding Haiti in recent years, but one shouldn't forget that Haiti was well on its way to social, political and economic disfunction before it gained significant international attention.

Phillippe and Metayer appeal to Haitians because they did SOMETHING, which is more than can be said for others. I am not endorsing their policies, but I do recognize the reality of the situation. CARICOM's efforts never showed any signs of success and were usually ignored by one side or the other. As one of the people extensively profiled in this documentary was in fact an Aristide supporter who had been on his payroll and who has lost her livelihood since his departure, I don't think you can argue that Wide Angle ignored the plight of his supporters; it just showed them as one of the many facets of a particularly complex society struggling to find its way. You should definitely not forget that they are not the only ones who are suffering in Haiti. Suffering is nearly universal there.

I found the documentary depressing but accurate. Some of the shots brought tears to my eyes-- it is so horrible to be reminded again and again of how extremely desperate most people are, and of the savagery we confront. The individuals profiled were interesting, and some may be pivotal in the coming months, and I was glad that such a variety of Haitians were included. Thanks to Jane and Daniel for putting together something informative even for those of us who think we know Haiti.

aizan · Joined: 06 Sep 2005 Posts: 1 Location: Miami, Florida

I have to admit that this was a very objective and realistic documentary on the situation in Haiti. But the film maker should have added at the end that the last shot was done around june 2005 and between then and now there have been a lot of changes in the situation there. The violence has been reduced considerably by heavy control from the UN and local police, thousand of voters have registered for the coming elections, economic activities are beeing going on in some other cities. On the other hand, the enviromental problem is unfortunately put aside, probably left to the coming government or at least no one is aware of what is being done in that matter.
It is going to be a tremendous challenge for any elected government ......
So far, no political party or candidate has presented a program..... i hope this will change .... "for a change"

icemanbldr · Joined: 06 Sep 2005 Posts: 1 Location: colorado

Wide angle stirred memories of nearly 40 years ago when I worked in Haiti for a NGO.

I’m really curious to read the divergent opinions on this BBD. One side says that Haitians must find solutions to their own politics and governance, and the other side says it’s a failed state and needs to be a protectorate.

I must admit that my gut says that stability must be found first, probably with outside help, then development of governance from within. Bill Moyers let James Dobbins off way too easily when he asked why the earlier 1994 mission failed. There’s just no way that two years is long enough to be involved. I’d be interested to read more from others.

I too attempted re-forestation, capping springs, and building schools in rural Haiti. Like Seguin, we tried our best to convince the local farmers that growing trees could be a good cash crop and would save some of the soil. What happened to our trees? I don’t know exactly what happened to them but I know they are not there …maybe to charcoal, maybe to expressive Haitian art, and maybe because an outsider was involved in the planting process.

Ron

Tinene · Joined: 06 Sep 2005 Posts: 6 Location: Connecticut

Haiti was doomed right from the start (after the genocide of its natives). The French assumed the western mountainous part of Hispaniola. It consisted of less than a third of the island. A coupling of French ingenuity and cruelty yielded an extremely productive land with the enslaved. In 1804 when my ancestors overthrew the French, Haiti had over a million residents. Meanwhile the land was already more than 50% deforested. Subsequently, the French exacted a large extortion fee to prevent further invasion. Furthermore the U.S. effective isolation of that nation guaranteed it’s economic under development. The resulting poverty has lead to desperation which in turn has accelerated the ecological devastation of that country. How do we expect nearly 10 million people to survive on a small area that is mostly deforested with resulting severe soil erosion? Unfortunately, democracy will not improve this situation. Ironically, a strong assertive leader is needed to achieve population control and land management. Unfortunately, many others such as my self will have to continue the exodus.

tombogle · Joined: 07 Sep 2005 Posts: 1

President Hutchinson? My name is Tom Bogle. I never served under you, and I actually served in Boston, but I was one of the Kreyol speaking missionaries and got to work with some of the most wonderful people on the earth. Everytime I see something about Haiti, it makes me want to find out what I can do to help. I have been back from my mission for just over 4 years, so lang mwen a lou, but I still try to block out the subtitles and translators when they are interviewing people. I am married now, and have a one year old son, so I would not want to move them to Haiti. Do you know of any organizations here in the states that could use help with translation or any other services? I live in Mesa, Az and am always looking for people who speak Kreyol, but they are few and far between. I must say that I agree with you that the U.S. needs to take an active role in the rebuilding of Haiti. Every time I think of the goverment issues in Haiti, I always remember the quote by Joseph Smith about teaching the people correct principles and letting them govern themselves. Currently, Haitians celebrate "heroes" such as Toussaint L'ouverture. While I may admire the courage of those men in their attempt to throw off slavery, I am always reminded that Haitian independence is attributed to voodoo. As long as the people have this mindset, they will always be slaves to the wicked seduction of voodoo and true freedom will never be possible. Thank you for your work down there in trying to teach the people correct principles.

jeunediamant · Joined: 07 Sep 2005 Posts: 6

I completely agree with your comment. I have always felt that Haiti's problems began from the way independence was gained. From what I read the Haitian slave revolt involved Toussaint L'Ouvertur sacrificing a pig to a voodoo god. Whether this bit of information is true or not what i do know is that voodoo has a deep, dark and sickening presence in Haiti. I have read enough about this religion to come to the conclusion that it ensues a selfishness and gluttony in its believers. These characteristics are similar to those who raise arms and kill innocent people in the name of democracy and freedom, i.e. Guy Phillipe

jeunediamant · Joined: 07 Sep 2005 Posts: 6

I don't know Guy Phillipe but I know enough to say that anyone who uses violence in the name democracy is no promising presidential candidate. He fled into exile because of his brutal and bloody actions and now he has come back the same way he left, with blood on his hands. I don't want someone like that to have power. He was able to live his life without being punished for his crimes this is not a presidential candidate.

Tinene · Joined: 06 Sep 2005 Posts: 6 Location: Connecticut

"voodoo has a deep, dark and sickening presence in Haiti. I have read enough about this religion to come to the conclusion that it ensues a selfishness and gluttony in its believers."

your comment "dark and sickening." It suggests the Eurocentric mind set that continues to affect this nation. Did you notice how the elites mainly looked European? Did you notice how this light-skin "gentlemen" could only refer to his fellow country men has "peasants?" He could not appreciate their humanity.

jeunediamant · Joined: 07 Sep 2005 Posts: 6

"voodoo has a deep, dark and sickening presence in Haiti. I have read enough about this religion to come to the conclusion that it ensues a selfishness and gluttony in its believers."
your comment "dark and sickening." It suggests the Eurocentric mind set that continues to affect this nation. Did you notice how the elites mainly looked European? Did you notice how this light-skin "gentlemen" could only refer to his fellow country men has "peasants?" He could not appreciate their humanity.

In 2005 race is still such a touchy issue that everyday words that can have various meanings has to be used with care. As a "dark" skinned young women I used the term "dark" in replacement of evil. Not only do I have dark skin but I am of Haitian descent. I know all to well the ills of misleading and stereotypical references and images. the constant representation of the "haves" as being white and the "have nots" as being black. I am tired of having the "optional" choice to check off race on a job application. I am tired of seeing Afro-Amer hair magazines with the majority of their models having light skin and long hair. I am offended when people tell me, "Your so pretty for a black girl." I am tired of always being reminded that race will always be in issue.